12 comments (Add your own)

1. Ron wrote:

Hi Jason,

1. As Ken was giving the sermon, somewhere in the back of my brain I kept expecting someone to jump up and and start screaming at him for "hating" people that are different than him. I know that Ken was speaking out of love and there was not an ounce of hate in his words but most of the world only hears the words and not the love in our voice. As I looked out at the congregation from the choir loft I saw nothing but understanding on people's faces at what Ken was preaching. I'm proud to belong to a church body that shows love and reaches out.
2. I think this is God's wake up call to this country. He's saying "Hey! Remember Me? If you turn back to Me and trust Me you'll be ok no matter what happens".

Peace,

Ron

Mon, October 13, 2008 @ 1:59 PM

2. Sean wrote:

I'll reserve comment on Sunday's sermon until I have a chance to listen to it. As for the economy and politics - it would be great to hear from a pastoral perspective. I'd like to know what the Bible teaches through historical perspective and Jesus' teachings about what's going on present day. Just a thought

Mon, October 13, 2008 @ 3:13 PM

3. Greg Wallace Dolmage wrote:

Obviously the debate about homosexuality is a heated topic. A discussion is bound to be heated when both sides are trying to change the other's opinion. One major problem is that there is a large amount of ignorance mixed in with the whole discussion... on both sides. One side may know what scripture has to say, but has never actually had a sit-down conversation with a man or woman who has homosexual desires, let alone have a friend with such desires. The other side may understand the hardship of living with such desires, yet they do not have a true portrait of the message found in the Bible.

One message the comes out clear through the life of Jesus is that of paying a cost. Jesus gave his whole life, which ended with a brutal death on a cross, so that he could love this world. If we are to actually follow Jesus, there will be a heavy cost. We all must give up different desires and sources of pride for the end goal of loving the Lord with all that we have and loving our neighbor as ourself. And frankly, the Christian community must lead the way in this. How can we expect those on who don't call Jesus, "Lord," to die to themselves, when the church consistently fails to do this... let me say that better... when I consistently fail to do this.

Lord have mercy on us all.

Tue, October 14, 2008 @ 8:31 AM

4. Da Sciple wrote:

1. I thought the sermon was very clear and communicated God's design very well. My dad actually called me later that evening to thank me for inviting him to this church because "in years and years of church attendance he's never had things made so clear week in and week out". In his words, and probably the words of countless others who were there, he never knew exactly why the Jews didnt trust the Genitles to carry on God's Word until Ken broke down what theyre lifestyles were like. This is also one of the things that has kept me at ERC - rather than just say yes/no/do/dont etc. the pastoral staff make it a point to define, describe and explain !?why!?

2. This isn't a diagnosis; it's a signpost towards one. Nor do I have a remedy lying ready to hand. What does one do in this situation? I'm not exactly sure; but I do know that it will involve cheerful generosity. Giving money away is the first great step towards dethroning it as an idol. As long as we are a culture of mammon-worshippers we can expect, quite literally, to pay the price that idols always demand.


Brace yourselves - The current world economic woes are only birth pains that hopefully will settle in time. But, the birth eventually has to come. World leaders are already calling for unification and restructuring of world finances. What in good times would take years or even decades to implement, in difficult times forces a rapid response.

Out of the ashes of this financial crisis will birth a new world government. And, the Bible calls the final form of human world government the Antichrist's Kingdom.

I completed, implemented the tools of, and am teaching FPU for a reason.

Tue, October 14, 2008 @ 9:50 AM

5. Almita wrote:

I, too, appreciated Pastor Ken's sermon on Sunday - his obvious love for all people (including homosexuals) and his courage in defining God's rules concerning just what righteous behavior is expected of us. I had only one concern that was not addressed. How do we protect our children when we embrace those who are gay? We do want to welcome all people into our fellowship and from this relationship be able to proclaim God's love and purpose for their lives by introducing them to Jesus Christ. But, again, how do we protect our young folk until God changes these that we are welcoming into our lives? This is probably not the place to ask these kind of questions and I don't expect you to post this. However, there must be others, especially those with small children, who have these same concerns.

Tue, October 14, 2008 @ 4:59 PM

6. Bill White wrote:

I am a HUGE fan of getting to know gays and lesbians intimately and welcoming them into the life of your family. As a dad with 9 and 7 year olds in the house, I for one want my kids interacting with the people that Jesus loved. How else will they learn to love like Jesus? And who will they learn how to love like Him unless I lead the way?

Are conversations awkward sometimes? Yes. Is there heartache sometimes? Certainly. Do I have to wrestle daily for my friends and family who don't know the Lord? yes. And do I still have to grow in my love for them? Tons. But I refuse to dishonor my God by excluding those whom He longs for from my table and from my kids.

Honestly, I see more kids grow up and turn away from the faith who lived in a 'christian bubble' than those who were 'in the world.' Wasn't it someone we know who said we were SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE WORLD? That was Jesus who said that.

As you can see from this post, this is a personal issue for me. I have wept and wept in grief over this issue and for homosexuals dear to me to know the Lord. I feel like Paul sometimes when he grieves over those who don't know Christ in Romans 9 "I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers."

Frankly, I wish we all had deep friendships with gays and lesbians and were all deep in prayer over them. Will you join me in grieving and loving and praying?

Tue, October 14, 2008 @ 8:02 PM

7. wrote:

I worry about my kids sometimes too. I'm not sure this is necessarily of God. I'm confident in my relationship with them. But, I worry and that's normal. My prayer is that my kids will know the love of their Father in Heaven and that they will show compassion and love to others who struggle with sexual immorality - in whatever form.

Wed, October 15, 2008 @ 7:49 AM

8. John Payne wrote:

This is a subject that hits very close to home for me. I have had to balance my total belief in Gods word and my prayers and hopes for my daughter’s salvation. On one hand I have to accept that Gods word when planted into ones heart will not come back void. In this I mean; ERC has loved and nurtured my beautiful daughter and spoken truth into her life. She has been blessed with awesome women of God to mentor her. This has not always been easy for them, my wife, my daughter, nor myself. I do my best to let her know that I love her unconditionally. She knows that I don’t agree with the lifestyle that she has chosen however. I don’t want to alienate her or her partner, but I don’t want to send any signals that this is OK. My wife and I have had to sit down with our younger two children and try to explain that we have not formed our own opinion that same sex partnerships is wrong, but like everything else that we stand for and believe in came from the Bible. It was and still is confusing for them, but they do an excellent job of showing us adults how to look past this issue when it comes to just flat out loving the socks off of they’re big sister. Especially Keanu (my 9yr old son) who still look up to his sister and thinks the world of her. I have tried to change my daughters mind about living this way since she was 13yrs old. I have done everything from taking any clothing that had the slightest overtones of masculinity, to socially isolating her for months at a time. I have not been perfect in dealing with this situation but I have not given up. Needless to say as soon as she was old enough to be on her own, she felt like she did not have to comply with the house rules. Although it hurt me immensely I had to ask her to leave. Now that she lives on her own she is further away from God. But God gives us free will. When we know the truth, the way, and the life but choose to ignore it there is a price to pay. I will never give up hope. Now I fight this battle spiritually by keeping her in my prayers. I know that God can do what I cannot. My daughter is a princess of the King of all Kings; she has at one point accepted him as her Lord & Savior. So my prayer is that this story will have a happy ending, like that of the prodigal son!!!

Wed, October 15, 2008 @ 11:12 AM

9. Bill White wrote:

John - I have such deep respect for you and Teresa and how you guys love your daughter so well and still hold to what is in scripture. You are awesome at showing us how to show both grace and truth. I continue to pray for your whole family!

Wed, October 15, 2008 @ 6:47 PM

10. Jason Brown wrote:

Great posts, everyone. Thanks for your courage and honesty.

As I've reflected on the sermon from Sunday, it seems like the Biblical language in Corinthians suggests a wide range of sexual desires and behaviors that satisfy these desires. I don't read titles and boxes in Corinthians -- stuff like heterosexual, homosexual, transsexual, bisexual. What I read is that we humans are all broken in our sexual desires -- every one of us. So, all of us are a mixture of broken sexual desires. People aren't defined as "Heterosexual" or "Homosexual" in the scriptures. These are labels we put on ourselves and others.

In the midst of our sexual brokenness, Christ comes and asks his followers to be faithful to him in our sexual behavior. Men who follow Christ and for whatever reason are attracted physically to other men, are asked to be faithful to Christ -- which often takes the form of abstinence. Married men who follow Christ and for whatever reason are attracted to other women, are asked to be faithful -- which looks like saying no to intimacy (or faux-intimacy) of any sort with anyone other than their wife. The call for all of us who are Christ-followers is faithfulness. And, in this respect, WE ARE THE WEIRD ONES. As Pastor Ken said on Sunday, the real sexual revolution is found in the Bible. It will never be the case on this earth that faithfulness to the Biblical teaching on our sexual behavior is not revolutionary.

Understanding that I AM THE WEIRD ONE is helpful because it changes my approach to people who don't follow Jesus. What do I mean by this? Well, it means that I don't expect them to be faithful in the way I am faithful. I don't demand that people who don't follow Jesus function in the same way I do. Making these demands is the essence of Phariseeism.

Rather than demanding that they be "weird" in the way I am, I love them. I don't judge. I don't condemn. I love. I invite in. I present Jesus to them. If they choose to follow Jesus, then we can walk down the road of what faitfulness to Christ looks like -- in all facets of their life, which includes their sexual behavior. And the journey of faithfulness is a road we walk together.

Thu, October 16, 2008 @ 8:15 AM

11. Tonya wrote:

This is an issue near and dear to my heart, as God seems to continually bring it in front of my face, both through youth that I have loved like my own kids, and through friends from my past. Just this past week, I have been contacted by 2 of my closest high school friends who are each now in long-term, committed lesbian relationships. For some reason, every person I've been close to who is currently living in same sex relationships has or currently calls themselves Christian. And I'm not talking about nominally -- I'm talking about people who have known and walked with God. Believe me, if you want to mess with your head, spend some time with people who have deeply loved God in the past and now embrace their homosexuality OR who currently claim to do both. To be honest, I despise this whole issue because it is soooo complicated. I wish it would just go away -- sometimes, honestly, I even wish it was just okay to be gay. It would be easier, it seems. But as Greg already said, the Gospel is costly. And loving people is costly, and mostly messy. And while I would love to bury my head or my heart, loving these people makes that impossible.

And the truth is, it is not going to go away. In fact, when you work with today's youth, you find out it is FAR WORSE than we in the church even suspect. Recently my husband had to explain to my 7 yr. old son what being gay was -- before he knows about sex! Soon he and Sydney will realize that this includes some of the people they love the most. Some of the best parents I know raised their kids with the philosophy of "prepare rather than protect." I wrestle with this sometimes, as I'm a natural protector. BUT IT DOESN'T WORK, so we better put it out there (yes wisely, not flippantly of course) and learn to talk, talk, talk to our kids about all of it, and listen even more. We can't deal with the world as we'd like it to be, but only as it really is.

I'm so proud of Pastor Ken. I'm so thankful for his "8000 hours" that he's been willing to put in to understand all this, as we all benefit. I'm so thankful that he is unwilling to compromise on either the truth of the Gospel or its grace. I'm so thankful he pointed out that it can take YEARS for people to honestly face this issue in their lives!

Like Bill and John, I'm standing on the hope of Christ's promises and His redeeming power for many that I love. During those days when I want to give up, when I struggle to believe that He really can reach my loved ones, when the task of transformation seems too big -- He reminds me that my lack of faith is only because of my misunderstanding of what He's had to redeem in me. As Romans 3 tells us, no one seeks God on their own. I'm not the easy project that I like to believe. It required the same blood to cleanse me as it does to reach those I love. As Greg said, may God have mercy on us all.

Thu, October 16, 2008 @ 8:31 AM

12. Almita wrote:

I have truly enjoyed and been uplifted by all of these blogs concerning this very basic subject of "loving the person, while despising the sin." However, my original question has not been answered. How do we protect our children when we (as we must) welcome into our fellowship those who do not live as we do? Our children are very trusting and vulnerable and are not sophisticated enough to 'love the person and hate the sin.' Of course they will see the good example of parents and others that love Christ, and they will hear God's truth from the same. But I have known several examples of children from strong Christian families that followed the lead of someone they admired into lives of immorality. Our culture has such a strong pull on our young people that I believe we must arm ourselves to do battle for them. If we ourselves are led by God's Spirit and filled by His enabling power in wisdom and discernment to bring into even our own homes those who have not as yet been changed by His grace, God, Himself, will have to protect our children from all evil.

If we, as a church body, feel called to enter satan's territory to destroy his works in those that are his, then we of necessity must take heed that we ourselves do not fall. Apostle Paul warned of this. My earnest prayer for our church is that we will understand and be willing to engage in this eternal battle by truly putting on all of the armour of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I love the fact that we want to love all as our Savior loves. The cost to do this effectively is one that we must pay - the discipline of making sure that our relationship with Jesus is cherished and nurtured on a daily basis through much prayer and Scripture reading. If we recognized that our 'enemy' is someone much wiser and stronger in influence and power than we are, we will seek to better know the ways and will of our Lord and to be empowered by HIs Spirit. I think that I have answered my own question. Thanks for letting me talk it out. You really don't have to post this.

Thu, October 16, 2008 @ 5:45 PM

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